Hi-
I guess I can start the Nomenus Membership discussion myself.
For me, there are a couple of issues.
The first is that Nomenus was formed in an era of Identity Politics. There also was a history of movements started by gay people being co-opted, and this was part of the reasoning that led to the choice of “gay identified man” as the parameter for membership. At that time, in the mid-80's, it was still radical to identify as “gay”. It was even more radical for men (of any stripe) to band together to form a group created to nurture and support one another. There was a feeling among the pioneers that we needed to learn to do everything for ourselves, and that this self-actualization could be manifested only in a group of likes.
To me, one of the most sacred tenets of Nomenus is the way in which we make decisions. We decide on the basis of true consensus, whereby the group can not implement a decision if there is even one person opposed (“blocking”). There are many decisions that would have been made long ago if we were to use “majority rule” as our decision process. As far as I can tell, one of these would have been a change in the membership policy.
It is true that there has been incredible change in the time since Nomenus was formed. Identifying as a particular “sexuality” has been supplanted by a system of affinity and acceptance that blurs a line once distinct. As a social construct, I identify as a “gay man”, in such places as my job, an outdoor group to which I belong, and Nomenus. It is still radical to do so in my job, where that alone is more than most can handle, much less all of the incredible variety of “sexualities” that my friends and acquaintances exhibit. It is markedly less so in Nomenus, where really I am known solely as Rula.
Even more distressing to some members of Nomenus is the fluidity of gender. What does being a “man” mean? At the last Great Circle, one member stated that he could not view another member as a “man”. How tightly should Nomenus parse the meaning of this one word? How can it be defined, as it is unlikely to pass consensus to change it, so as to not exclude. Is that even possible? Do we end up with some unreadable statement in excruciating detail that says effectively nothing? (Like some people view my sentences)
I have witnessed what I consider unmistakable displays of sexism on the part of Nomenus members, especially when they are telling us “how it is” in other communities of which they would have only superficial knowledge (e.g. In the “lesbian” community). “Why should Nomenus have to change?”, they posit, “when other communities still exclude on the basis of gender.” I have seen the taint of exclusivity and entitlement demonstrated by some members – at least partially for which I blame the Reagan administration when it became socially acceptable to be selfish – with a sort of smugness about the continued denial of membership to others in our community. They are correct, and I guess they can be smug about it, “membership” will not yet (ever?) be consensed to change.
On a practical front, what does “membership” mean? Lots of people use its limits as an excuse not to be involved. We get many comments from other communities, such as in Tennessee where Nomenus is referred to as “No women us”. Would a change in membership mean that there would be more people actually doing work for Nomenus and the Sanctuary? (I fear not) What do people in the Wolf Creek Sanctuary community want to do that not being a member of Nomenus precludes them from doing?
As with the last time that Great Circle met in Portland, I am proposing that at least half a day of the Circle be open to the larger community for a discussion of “membership”, and more importantly, how Nomenus can welcome and encourage the contributions of non-members.
Membership has been discussed in other posts with considerable rancor. I hope that the discussion in this can be inclusive without attack, and passionate without oppression.
Rula
I guess I can start the Nomenus Membership discussion myself.
For me, there are a couple of issues.
The first is that Nomenus was formed in an era of Identity Politics. There also was a history of movements started by gay people being co-opted, and this was part of the reasoning that led to the choice of “gay identified man” as the parameter for membership. At that time, in the mid-80's, it was still radical to identify as “gay”. It was even more radical for men (of any stripe) to band together to form a group created to nurture and support one another. There was a feeling among the pioneers that we needed to learn to do everything for ourselves, and that this self-actualization could be manifested only in a group of likes.
To me, one of the most sacred tenets of Nomenus is the way in which we make decisions. We decide on the basis of true consensus, whereby the group can not implement a decision if there is even one person opposed (“blocking”). There are many decisions that would have been made long ago if we were to use “majority rule” as our decision process. As far as I can tell, one of these would have been a change in the membership policy.
It is true that there has been incredible change in the time since Nomenus was formed. Identifying as a particular “sexuality” has been supplanted by a system of affinity and acceptance that blurs a line once distinct. As a social construct, I identify as a “gay man”, in such places as my job, an outdoor group to which I belong, and Nomenus. It is still radical to do so in my job, where that alone is more than most can handle, much less all of the incredible variety of “sexualities” that my friends and acquaintances exhibit. It is markedly less so in Nomenus, where really I am known solely as Rula.
Even more distressing to some members of Nomenus is the fluidity of gender. What does being a “man” mean? At the last Great Circle, one member stated that he could not view another member as a “man”. How tightly should Nomenus parse the meaning of this one word? How can it be defined, as it is unlikely to pass consensus to change it, so as to not exclude. Is that even possible? Do we end up with some unreadable statement in excruciating detail that says effectively nothing? (Like some people view my sentences)
I have witnessed what I consider unmistakable displays of sexism on the part of Nomenus members, especially when they are telling us “how it is” in other communities of which they would have only superficial knowledge (e.g. In the “lesbian” community). “Why should Nomenus have to change?”, they posit, “when other communities still exclude on the basis of gender.” I have seen the taint of exclusivity and entitlement demonstrated by some members – at least partially for which I blame the Reagan administration when it became socially acceptable to be selfish – with a sort of smugness about the continued denial of membership to others in our community. They are correct, and I guess they can be smug about it, “membership” will not yet (ever?) be consensed to change.
On a practical front, what does “membership” mean? Lots of people use its limits as an excuse not to be involved. We get many comments from other communities, such as in Tennessee where Nomenus is referred to as “No women us”. Would a change in membership mean that there would be more people actually doing work for Nomenus and the Sanctuary? (I fear not) What do people in the Wolf Creek Sanctuary community want to do that not being a member of Nomenus precludes them from doing?
As with the last time that Great Circle met in Portland, I am proposing that at least half a day of the Circle be open to the larger community for a discussion of “membership”, and more importantly, how Nomenus can welcome and encourage the contributions of non-members.
Membership has been discussed in other posts with considerable rancor. I hope that the discussion in this can be inclusive without attack, and passionate without oppression.
Rula
posted by:
|
Oregon
|
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 8:46 AMSpeaking as a Gay man who is blocked from Nomenus membership by Nomenus's current Corporate Secretary,
recently in this tribe when Nomenus membership was discussed, this same Nomenus Corporate secretary started four attack threads against me, and even posted my home address against tribe rules.
This same Corporate Secretary also posts warnings against my visiting the Sanctuary on the Nomenus Co-Co e-list.
Let's hope this new thread bears not such sour fruit. -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 9:11 AMwhy were you banned? where and when was it consensed to and by who?
-
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 10:50 AMVaughn has been informed repeatedly (both publicly and Privately) that he has NOT been Banned (from the land or the org) and that he can reaply for membership... and he continues to bang the tired Drum he has insisted has been forced upon him. and it Just is NOT true.
He has been told Spacficly that if he chooses to he can reaply for membership at GC. (by me and other members of GC).
I am not sure why he persists in this insistence that he has been banned?... I personaly think he is trying to get pitty or play the marter... or maybe it is something else... I do not know.
I Know that he has lied about me in the past and insisted that the lie is the truth... I think others have experinced this as well.
I have Nothing to Hide... I have offered to meet him in HeartCircle or in mediation which he has refused.
in any case... he has NOT been "banned" from the land or the org. (as I understand it)... Many of us (including me) have advocated for him (why, I am Not sure ... other than it seemed the JUST thing to do), dispite the Hateful attacks from Him.
by the way ... the CURRENT CORPORATE SECRETARY is Random Chance... and I do not think he is responcable for any "ATTACK THREADS" on Vaughn or ANYone.
will am I
-
-
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 11:56 AMWARNING
This is a response thread, as I was called out by a Beast.
Please, it's summer-
go look at the flowers,
pretty-pretty- flowers
best not to read this post-
oh-no!
Gentle faeries-
go find a happier post to read,
'cause this ain't it!
No, Beast,
I have not lied,
I've had three membership forms to Nomenus rejected without reason, except for a letter from Rula writing his opinion against me as Corporate Secretary, acting as if what he wrote was a consensed decision, which it was not.
Personally, I wish Beast would stop sending me private emails peppered with such as "Drop dead, eat shit, everyone hates you,"
all his words.
Then gas off lies against me here,
stating his opinion as fact.
I am sorry I rejected him when he tried pawing me,
then suffered his disapointments when he felt I wronged him for rejecting his advances.
I do not like people using guilt to shame me because I would not submit to sex with them.
That is creepy.
I did not want to have sex with Beast because:
His attitude creeped me out.
his body odor and hygiene were gaggably pungent. I am at the end of the day a true Virgonian. personal hygene and body odor are triggers for if I would wish intimacies. Honestly, these days I'm just not into having a lot of sex, absolutely never on demand.
And, there was so much fat that there is no visible penis, and as a Gay man, my sexuality involves consensual sex with other men who have penises. I do love men of size, but for sex to be able to consumate, there should at least be a visible penis.
I post this because Beast continues to harass me with private emails, threats, and consistent misrepresentations
against me here on tribe.
I'm sure his response to this will bear more of the same,
so kindly take this out of your precious, gentle minds,
and go find some flowers. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 12:16 PMVaughn, if you and William want to duke it out, you are welcome to come to the Faerie process tribe. Pm me if you want in.
Nomad -
-
Pixies servin' punch an' cookies!
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 5:07 PM -
-
Back to tha Nomenus membership chat
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 5:18 PMSo,
can a pixie be a member ov Nomenus?
We will bring punch an' cookies! -
-
Re: Back to tha Nomenus membership chat
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 5:19 PMHow does Nomenus feel about chickens?
-
-
-
-
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 12:40 AMtake a good look at the responce vaughn has posted to my clarification that he has Not been banned...
it is a Clear Representation of his charictor.
Vaugh is a Liar.
if you believe his Spew... you will believe ANYthing... it all sounds so plausable... till he starts saying it about you... then you will know what it is like... I have No Desire to continue to respond to him.
he claimes this weird "Molest" story... it Just is Not true.
he has never clarified for me or ANYone what the 'Pawing' was... i never grabed his dick or ass... never tried to kiss him... Never cupped his balls or breasts...
I only ever remember offering him a hug a couple of times EVER... personaly there is a Whole list of lovely Faeries, that would come ahead of him, if I ever decided to lower my Subject/Subject Standard to "Grope or Molest" (but I have NOT)
I have Never had ANY Attraction to Vaughn.
he has never said Where it was supposed to happen... or How it happened... or what exactly transpired according to his memory.
it is a LIE
he IS A LIAR. the only messages i have sent him privately were to inform him that he is NOT Banned.
the whole Cry Wolf statement that he is Currently Banned, is a Clear representation of the fact that he IS A liar.
When it happens to you (or is Aimed at you)... you will finaly understand what so many have gone through with this 'faerie'.
what more can i say... I was a supporter of Vaughn NOT being banned... because i thought it set a BAD Precedent now... I think otherwise... and regret ever speaking up for him at GC... this is my reward... Lies and Slander.
don't believe all you hear.
William -
-
Re: Vaugn's slander
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 1:04 AMYou know...
when you read this message from Vaughn you must recognize the very Vial Nature of it... it speaks volumes about him...
to say the things he has about me... my weight my dick size etc... oder (LOL) really Speaks to the sort of person he is. (guess he can not smell himself... I have... it ain't Flowers... LOL)
there are things about me that I do not like... I am sure that is true of all of us... i am who I am... I have tried for years to change aspects like my weight and dick size... but ultimately I have learned to BE REAL and love my self gently... as I would any one else who is Not perfect.
but as Hidiouse as Fat, or lack of endowment is... or even Body Oder, Heaven forbid ... Fae Sanctuary was the place where I thought it was OK to be myself... To let down my guard... to take a risk and take off the frog Skin...
but this Post from Vaughn, (this is not the first one like it) is designed to rob me of that safety... (and turn those who do not know me against me without a chance) I think nearly anyone who reads it can see the truth of that... it is without compasion ... it is the total Opposite of Subject/Subject and I do not think my post clarifying His membeship issue.. was deserving of that... was it?
I think maybe also this post from him shows a Really Ugly Side of Fae Looksisum... and that No one would call him on it...
but Hey at least it is Not happening to you right... ? that is ok I can take it.
I know his post is designed to make me think that the sanctuary is Not a place of Safety for me...
and now when he comes to GC for approval of his membership I will stand opposed to it... instead of in support as I have been till now.
may None Know what it is like to be the target of such Hate as Vaughn has Showed me (here and before)... for NO Apparent Reason... other than I once said "his" Boy Friend was HOT... and that I once said a Gathering that we "Co Facilitated" was a Disaster/badly organized (which it was)... THAT IS ALL.
also is ANYone Not clear that the puppet persona of SQUEEGLE is Him?
I think it is pathetic... and Sad.
Will I Am -
-
Re: Vaugn's slander
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 6:31 AMOh Beast
PLEASE stop this insanity,
nobody wishes to read this.
I have suffered over two years of receiving personal emails just like this,
besides posts like those last two.
Why are you sooooo obsessed with this?
I did not appreciate your advances to me,
which at the time I thought was but a small thing.
Now it's been TWO YEARS of hate from you.
Stop this.
If my sisters have taught me anything,
it's that
NO means NO.
I have the right to do with my body as I wish,
Please stop this email war.
Please stop sending me private emails worded with such as "Drop dead, eat shit, everybody hates you,etc.",
all those were your words.
Please stop punishing me with your disapointments whenever I post here.
and please stop LYING about my participation with Nomenus.
This is why Nomenus puts all of your posts in a "special" folder.
This is why you have been banned from the Billies and other lists.
STOP! -
-
Re: Oh dear
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 6:36 AM"I know his post is designed to make me think that the sanctuary is Not a place of Safety for me...
and now when he comes to GC for approval of his membership I will stand opposed to it... instead of in support as I have been till now.
"
Funny, all the minutes of Nomenus meetings I've read where you go on about me do not reflect this.
Saying one thing while doing another is a lie, Beast. -
-
Re: Back to the membership chat
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 6:43 AMAnd, I have sent in my Nomenus membership application form # 4. The prior three were not accepted, even the one I pinned up on the Nomenus message board at Wolf Creek last year.
With a new administration, I hope the best for this. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Pixies servin' punch an' cookies!
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 9:27 AM
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Thu, August 30, 2007 - 10:28 PMi just want to say that I've personally sat through several nomenus meetings where the term "cessation of membership" has come up, one of them being the cotl before the most recent. vaughn's nomenus membership in particular has been the whole basis of this conversation. ive seen 3 of the physical membership forms that he has sent in the the church & have watched as none of them have been accepted, because the church has not come to concensus around this issue. and if my understanding is correct, the topic of cessation of membership got overlooked at this last cotl, and concensus still hasnt been reached on the issue. its my personal feeling that all of this process (or lack there of) has been really unfair to vaughn - regardless of judgements on ANYONE'S character.
with love and light
kevin sowelu rainbeau owl -
-
Re: Vaugn's "Banned membership"
Thu, August 30, 2007 - 10:46 PMThanks much for the kind words,and it has been so wonderful getting to know you better.
I'm still optimistic about the outcome of this, and hope for the best,
and know that only a few are holding up the process,
and today there is a new Nomenus administration.
What I fear is people feeling a need to take sides. I know that my friends do care for me, and that is enough.
And-
I will try my darnbdest to resist any further flame-bate here. -
-
Askew Solution to Membership "Problem".
Fri, August 31, 2007 - 3:25 AMI walked the Labyrinth at Lands End in San Francisco Monday night August 27, before, during and after the Total Lunar Eclipse. You may wonder what that has to do with the Nomenus Membership Discussion. Everything!!! I walked it as an Empathic “BaseOther” Shaman: one of many such shamans scattered through out the entire world. The “walk” was a 7 hour joyous, healing, empowering, exploring, “learning more about myself and how we ALL--each of us as panGender and/or baseOther--are a wonderful and necessary part of human life”. Words can’t really describe the experience, however, since words are needed for human communication on Tribe, I will tell of some of the concepts that the Earth, the Cosmos, the Labyrinth, and other sentient humans & non-humans brought to me. What I wish to emphasize about this experience is the LOVE that was present and the tightly-bonded connections (metaphysical and physical) of a shamanic “Family”.
Each of us has our own perception of SELF. Your perception of self may be the same as, similar to, somewhat different from OR totally different from my perception of SELF: that perception is what it IS; it is something to honor and celebrate.
“Beyond” Self OR “Inside” Self OR “along with” self, there is OTHER. Other can be the same as, similar to, somewhat different from OR totally different from self. That other which we as humans really have the opportunity to know to the core could be called “Base Other”. “Base Other” means different things to various individuals and various groups; Radical Faeries when it started was a community of Base Other Relationship(S). Those RELATIONSHIPS--those individuals, small groups and the entire community--are just as valuable and needed in the larger society today, as they were in 1979. It is through the exploration of “Base Other” that we as individuals really learn to know and Love our own self: these explorations are a major healing opportunity.
The Earth really is our mother . . . . . AND at the same time is also father . . . . . AND is also Both & neither . . . . . AND is Other . . . . . . . AND is Very Different, very similar & beautifully Equal with we Humans. The Earth never disconnected from us, but over the millennia, we humans have disconnected ourselves from the earth. The Earth is more than happy to get that harmonious two-way connection back.
PanGender is connection with “Diverse Other”. PanGender is wonderful. PanGender is healing. PanGender is worthy of celebration. PanGender Community is BEAUTIFUL. PanGender Community is EQUAL with BaseOther Community.
“PanGender includes BaseOther”. “BaseOther is completely separate from PanGender”. You are right, those two statements can not both be logically true. However, those two statements are illogically true. Welcome to the universe: an amazing existence that is BOTH logical AND illogical. We humans have problems grasping the illogical. But just because we can’t understand ideas that are outside of or at right angles to logic, does not cause the universe to cease from Existing, Growing, Questioning, Feeling, Emoting, Dreaming, Imagining, Pondering Reality, etc.. . . . . what I am saying is that the universe does not cease to BE alive and be ALIVE, just because we freak out when faced with the “illogical”--especially the constructive & loving illogical. In the same manner, just because we can’t understand how BaseOther can be BOTH completely separate from AND an integral part of PanGender does not change how they relate to each other.
Nomenus formed to explore one specific type of BaseOther Community. Nomenus did not form out of fear or insecurity, it formed out of Love. A VERY LOVING and mutually supportive tightly-bonded community wanted to Love Each Other FOREVER: so they sought Land for Sanctuary, formed a Tax Exempt Church, and collectively purchased Wolf Creek when it was offered. A lot has happened over the years since Nomenus formed. AIDS was a major “harvester of souls”. Those BaseOther who survived felt Tremendous Loss; something I hope none of those “New” to Wolf Creek ever have to experience.
AIDS hit us hardest when We were just learning who we as Real Human Beings ARE and can BE; we were singing musical & psychic songs of Joy and Love . . . . . AND they were being Heard outside our gathering spaces. We were dancing with the Rhythms of the Earth, the Rhythms of our individual selves, the Rhythms of each other, and the Rhythms of community . . . . . and our friends noticed how changed for the better we were.
Many BaseOther who are still alive feel alienated and some have become quite bitter. And to make things worse, a “New” community of “Diverse Others”--both intentionally and unintentionally--cry that “BaseOther” are sexist, selfish, unenlightened, “not in with the times”, “hopefully soon to die out” dinosaurs. “War” has broken out where there could be Love and mutual support/celebration.
Not everyone is PanGender. Not everyone is BaseOther. And yet . . . . speaking from a place of shamanic magick, We all are BOTH PanGender AND BaseOther; to fight each other, to wish each other out of existence is an act we do upon OurSelves. This War, this fight to deny BaseOther this small Sanctuary (one of many diverse Faerie Sanctuaries around the world) that they worked so hard to bring about, is a Major Tragedy: it is DESTROYING us all!
Rather than finding arguments to “Bowl each other over with” in order to gain the upper hand in deciding the Nomenus Membership Policy, we could--All of us--be looking for ways to strengthen our BaseOther and PanGender communities. We could joyfully walk hand in hand down the road of life . . . together and separately, knowing we won’t always understand each other, but we will always love each other.
But we don’t! And that is--in my humble opinion--the root of this so-called need to change Nomenus.
We have the opportunity to HEAL our two hurting communities. Will we take it, or will we continue the war? Will we think there is strength in the mutual growth of our two communities; or will we continue to Kick each other to death? I say, let us be TOTALLY RADICAL and see each of us as being valid and none of us being invalid. Let Nomenus be what it is--let it move back towards what it once was--AND let PanGender emerge as what it is. We can stand next to each other giving in Joy and receiving in Joy; we don’t need to compete over anything--there is more than enough of love for each one of us: for all of us. I know in the depths of my heart that no one needs to “step aside” in order for someone else to grow.
Am I a Soul inhabiting a Body? . . . . . Or am I a seamless amalgamation of SoulBody: BodySoul? The answer to either of those two questions is “Yes” for some of us and “No” for others of us. And yet, each of those Subjective answers is TRUE. Maybe, if we could see this subjective nature of reality, we wouldn’t need to have a half day discussion of Membership Policy at the Great Circle! Why don’t we set aside that planned time for us time find ways for helping each other just BE: why don’t we take the time to really listen to each other and get to know each other as the loving people we are? Here are some words of a couple of songs that just might be helpful:
{spoken by the Earth Mother to EACH of us}
How could anyone ever tell you
you were anything less than beautiful.
How could anyone ever tell you
you were less than whole.
How could anyone fail to notice
that your loving is a miracle.
How deeply you’re connected to my soul.
= = =
Oh the games that people play now
Every night and every day now
Never meaning what they say now
Never saying what they mean.
Look around and tell me what you see
What’s happening to you and me
Grant me the serenity
To remember who I am.
Cause you’ve given up your sanity
For your pride and your vanity
Ah, you turned your back on humanity
And you don't give a damn.
You know I’m talking about you and me
and the games people play. -
-
Re: Askew Solution to Membership "Problem".
Fri, August 31, 2007 - 4:49 AMWow. -
-
Re: Askew Solution to Membership "Problem".
Fri, August 31, 2007 - 8:17 AMAmazing work there, Teddy. I know the Land's End Labyrinth well.
For those here who do not know where, take the main recreational area path out of the Cliff House parking lot East to the bluff above One Mile Beach, which as named is about a mile's stroll.
Where the Golden Gate opens up into the Pacific ocean.
This site has much history, as a look-out post for ships coming in off the ocean, or for submarines underneath.
This bluff is also a favored departure point for the ashes left from many loved ones.
One Mile Beach historically was a nude beach claimed by the Gay community as a rugged Sanctuary from the San Franciscan city din.
I also did a walk there earlier this summer, shortly after doing a similar summer solstice Labyrinth walk at Sauvie Island outside of Portland at the Columbia river, with a gaggle of pangendered faeries at sunrise.
Sauvie Island has a similar history for the Gay community as One Mile Beach.
I appreciate completing a circuit connection.
Bicycling to Sauvie just before dawn on that solstice, a large owl swooped over my head due South, the direction I was to journey then in a few too- short days, even for that longest day . -
-
A commitment to Nomenus AND Pangender!!!!
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 5:51 PMI commit to NOT dictating who you are. I commit to NOT projecting my subjective perception of reality upon you. I commit to listening to who you see yourself as. I commit to learning to understand who you are, BOTH when you are similar to me and when you are different from me. I commit to seeing you as a wonderful part of reality. I commit to seeing myself as a wonderful part of reality. I commit to not being afraid of you because you are different from me. I commit to not being afraid of you because you are almost identical to me.
I commit to the whole of community as the wonderful person that I am. I commit to communal celebration with You as you are AND with me as who I am. I commit to a community of EQUALS: one where we all have the same value as individuals in ALL of our many separate & blended colors.
I commit to growing and becoming more connected with the Earth, more connected with my fabulous self, more connected with your fabulous self, and more connected with community. I willingly and with love make these commitments.
I do NOT commit to assimilating into or being absorbed by a vague community that sees “Unity” as the be all and end all: a community where each of us must make “sacrifices of identity” or “sacrifices of dream” for the Good of the Whole.
My one request is that you consider making similar commitments to yourself, to me and to our community and communitieS. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A commitment to Nomenus AND Pangender!!!!
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 11:13 PMI'm about to have an outburst...................................................................................................................................................................................
.................................................................................................................................................................................................
.................................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................................................................................................. -
-
Unsu...
Re: A commitment to Nomenus AND Pangender!!!!
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 10:16 AMHar Har Har! -
-
Re: A commitment to Nomenus AND Pangender!!!!
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 4:31 PMYay!
Welcome back,
dear Daisy!!!!!!
Candy fer everyone!!!!!! -
-
Re: A commitment to Nomenus AND Pangender!!!!
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:41 AMThanks Sqweegle! It's good to be back!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 1:18 PM“Identity Politics” is one of those buzz words that tends to DIVIDE people.
“Identity Politics” is a term of silencing; a term of suppression.
The term “Identity Politics” is a smoke screen that clouds out truthS that we find uncomfortable or inconvenient.
Most of all, the term “Identity Politics” INVALIDATES a whole group of loving, wonderful, beautiful and deserve-the-right-to-BE people.
I will write more on this subject later. I am at work and don’t have the time right now that this subject really deserves.
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 4:24 PMI still want to write more comprehensively on this topic and I wanted to speak to the topic in the early part of the discussion as well.
Quite often in discussions, we human beings use prejudicial terms; “prejudicial” in the scientific sense meaning “biased: relating to the SUBJECTIVE beliefs of the speaker”. I am not using “prejudicial” in a negative way: I am not saying anyone who uses one of these terms is “bad”, “evil”, “unenlightened” or “immature”.
As an example of this usage of prejudicial terms, I list the following terms relating to a different—and yet philosophically & spiritually similar—topic:
“Pro Life”
“Pro Abortion”
“Anti Abortion”
“Anti Life”
“Pro Choice”
“Anti Choice”
I think we have a similar usage of prejudicial terms in our discussion on this topic. In no particular order, I list a few of those terms:
“Exclude”
“Focus”
“Gender”
“Male”
“Female”
“Gay”
“Homosexual”
“Pan Gender”
“Identity Politics”
“Explore”
“Sexual Orientation”
“Sexual Preference”
“Gender Identity”
“Perception of Self”
“Man”
“Woman”
“Bisexual”
“Transsexual”
“Transgender”
“Gay-identified male”
“Gay male-identified”
“Gay-male identified”
“Discover”
“Spiritual”
“Sexual Spirituality”
“Spiritual Sexuality”
“Sexual Identity”
“Human Being”
“Soul”
“Body”
“Spirit”
"Faerie"
"Fairy"
"Faggot"
"Queer" -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 7:05 AMI've had my membership forms to Nomenus rejected without reason for nearly two years now.
Minutes in the Nomenus Co-Co are full of discussions about me, yet I'm unable to participate in these meetings where my participation is the topic. It's easier for agendas that way, you know.
The current Nomenus Corporate Secretary's treatment against me is controversial within the current Nomenus membership, as other members have written that Rula's actions to bar me from membership are "Out of control."
Consensus, indeed.
How utterly Republican. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Membership Discussion
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 10:13 AMIm not a member of Nomenus - but I believe in what happens at WCS
... and I love the persuns served by faerie community.
-
-
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 3:57 PMWhen Nomenus formed: when Nomenus sought to purchase a Sanctuary for focusing on exploration of Homosexual Male Sexual Spirituality and Spiritual Homosexual Male Sexuality, the following song—from each faerie to every other faerie--very much represented the feelings of those committed to this process.
I've got a never-ending love for you
From now on that's all I want to do.
From the first time we met I knew
I'd have a never-ending love for you.
After all this time of being alone
We can love one another
Feel for each other, from now on . . .
It feels so good I can hardly stand it.
Never ending love for you
From now on that's all I want to do.
From the first time we met I knew
I'd sing my never ending song of love for you.
After all this time of bein’ alone
We can love one another, give for each other
From now on . . . .
It’s so good I can hardly stand it.
Never ending love for you
From now on that's all I wanna do . . . . .
* * * * * *
The emotion is missing from the above words on your computer monitor, but they were most definitely not missing from those who gathered and formed Nomenus. I’m not talking about love here, I am talking about LOVE! A new form of love . . . and yet a very ancient one: a rediscovered communal and small group love that INCLUDED couple love.
It is this above LOVE—which very much included sexual love, along with incredible affection (anyone remember the “Puppy Piles”?)—that drove the search for Sanctuary.
This LOVE could be called Resonating Love: the participants know how—and do—love each other (physically, emotionally and spiritually) so deeply because they are so similar to each other; the difference between other and self is so small that they know how to love “other” because they know how—they are learning how—to love self. One beautiful aspect of Resonating Love is that it teaches you how to love self: the “others” who know you so well, know what prevents you from loving yourself and they walk that path of self discovery WITH you.
Homosexual Male Resonating Love is only one type of Resonating Love. There are many other Resonating Loves. No one is telling anyone not to be a part of Resonating Love. However, SINCE there many types of different people, not everyone is going to resonate with each other: it’s like music—like notes on a piano—some notes resonate and some harmonize . . . the wonderful news is those notes that resonate with some notes, harmonize with others and those notes that harmonize some notes, resonate with others.
Resonating Love is not the only form of LOVE, but it is very real, very wonderful, and very worthy of being pursued. How much better it is to experience the other forms of LOVE as whole people. Being whole includes Self and Other. How much more beautiful these other forms of LOVE can be when each Self who participates comes from a place of Resonating LOVE.
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 9:38 PMIt always concerns me when a people whom are discriminated against, discriminate. This is referred to as a need for power over - in psych and sociology terms.
As for the fluidity of gender... I have worked closely with the transgender community, in particular the trans male community. Who are we to tell anyone what their gender is. What does it matter to me if someone tells me they are male and I am seeing "female" body shapes??? This comes from of fear and need to put people in a box so we know how to deal and relate with them for our own safety. It would be now different for a person to deny someone their "gay" identity, or as them to "prove" it.
This is 2007, and the younger generation of queers are having far less of an attachment to the 2 gendered fictitious construct that originated from the heterosexual community. It has been noted in the last few years that there are more than just 2 genders - by psych and human services professionals. We need to get with the times.
I often hear faeries refer to themselves as the 3rd gender. I myself am born with a penis, yet as I become increasingly more in touch with my true self, I am identifying more and more as a transmale. I had a leather Daddy who was a transmale (he has since passed from us). In my time with him and other trans males, for over 8 years, I am realizing that I relate more with the trans male journey than I do the gay male journey that is so prevalent within the overall GLBTQ community. Will I be denied membership because I identify as trans male, or will I be an exception because I was born with a cock?
The faeries are better than this! Men practicing a goddess (earth based spirituality) denying women, is denying the goddess. Nomenus is a group of men practicing only male deity spirituality denying women, might make some since, but we still run into the fluidity of gender...
The gods don't care. This is all our construct not theirs. The question is: "Does it serve us?" If it makes no difference to be a member on Nomenus to do for Wolf Creek, then why have members at all. If Nomenus is going to accept the contributions from women for Wolf Creek and disallow their membership, this is no better than the straight community disallowing gay men their rights but greedily accepting our contributions. It is hypocritical.
We all came from the sacred vagina, and it is to this great caldron that we will return for rebirth.
StarChild -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 10:55 AM"Gay men only like to have sex with Gay men. If your focus is sex, and having a big orgy somewhere, why would you invite some (such as a woman) that you would not want to ever have sex with."
Perhaps Nomenus should be less focused on physical sex. There's many ways to connect spiritually with another human, other than just having sex with them. -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 11:56 AMLOVE, LOVE, LOVE!!!! Why is it so impossible to believe that Gay Men LOVE???? And why do people see sex as such a Negative thing? Are we still clinging to our old Religious dogmas? It was Religion--especially the theocracies--that separated Erotic Energy from Spiritual Energy. Yes, of course, Spirituality encompasses more than sex, but we loose if we think that sex has nothing to do with spirituality and spirituality has nothing to do with sex. We humans--including queers of all kinds--for the most part have bought into the Dominate Culture's putrefying definition of sex and that's a major part of the problem that is tearing us apart.
BOTH AND, not Either Or! Celebrate who you totally are. I will celebrate who you totally are. We will celebrate who you totally are. Now, all that is left is for you to celebrate me for who I totally am. Don't be afraid, I (we) won't bite you. TOGETHER, you and I (in the generic larger sense) can do more wonderful things than we can when we fight with each other over who "is right" and who "is wrong". Let's take a swim in the illogical and even though we are very different from each other--even though we see from different perspectives--we are equal: we are both right!. Gay men, Gay women, bisexuals, transgenders, pangenders, fluidGenders, transexuals, asexuals, intersexed, <fill in the blank with whatever you want>; we are ALL human beings. We can live together in total support of each other IF we choose to. The Old does not need to step aside for the New, there is plenty of room for both. If you ask me to step aside or I push you away, how can we learn our wonderful magicks from each other; how can we heal each other and the society at large if we keep stabbing each other in the back with swords? -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 2:01 PMSex is spirituality, or an outgrowth from our core spirit of self into the creations from connections.
But,
since this thread is about Nomenus membership,
I will mail in my Nomenus membership application # 4,
and see what happens.
It will be good,
right?
Ah, the adventure continues. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 3:45 PMWow, I can really feel your pain in the last post, Vaughn. I think my heart is wide open right now, and I can feel the pain motivating this conflict for everyone. I believe that it's important to go beneath the surface of anger and frustration to find the vulnerability and pain. Rejection hurts and I think we all share that pain. That's why I think this conflict could be better resolved if everyone would just get honest and talk about the hurt. We don't have to blame and shame eachother, just say....."I'm feeling rejected and hurt by.................." and try to have a good cry about it. THIS is heart space, and it's not so hard to do, is it? If we talk about the pain, it clears and we see more clearly. Who wouldn't want that?
Love,
Barry -
-
Unsu...
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 3:49 PMI left a part out..........listening. If we aren't hearing eachother, then the circle is broken and starts all over again, looping endlessly. Being caught in the pain without a container to hold it and receive it I think is why this isn't getting resolved. Are we hearing eachother?
So in response, I would say...."I hear your pain. I'm sorry it hurts so much. Is there anything we can do for you now?"
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 1:30 AMJust because some people are Gender Fluid does not mean all people are gender fluid. I believe in caution when it comes to generalizing from the specific.
Can WE--all of us on all sides of this NOMENUS membership issue, NOT the "faerie" membership issue--open to the possibility of BOTH AND rather than EITHER OR. Can WE--again ALL of we--open to the possibliity of our PanGender AND FaerieMales/MaleFaeries being different AND equal: being DIFFERENT and EQUAL; BEING different and equal.
The ENERGY and DYNAMICS of the 1979 till about 1994 Spiritual Gatherings of Radical Faeries were totally incredible. The combined PRESENCE of "the males who really loved males" at these gatherings was TRULY Magick.". Why must that magick DIE in order for PanGender to LIVE? That MAGICK--sorry to say--has been berated for so long that it has become very dim; WE understand why you don't see us for the Beautiful and Loving people WE are. Let us CELEBRATE each other as EQUALS!
Consider the REAL POSSIBILITY of the "Old" and the "New" standing beside each other, rather than the old making way for the new. Are we in your way? In a few years, in whose way will you be? WHEN we stand Separately AND Together, we will have no need to worry about that question.
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 12:28 PMIt hurts, it REALLY HURTS, to see the Membership Discussion being overpowered by personal "You wounded me more than I wounded you, I can be more mean than you" tears & barbs.
The Nomenus Membership Discussion is a serious topic. It's a topic which I feel has lots of Misunderstandings in it. Perhaps, just perhaps, this personal flame war here is, in reality, how the so-called "opposing" sides of the issue actually view and feel about each other: an art imitates life theatrical performance meant to be a mirror for us. IF we--all of us--are being mirrored here, if this is how we want to treat each other, then we all are in serious trouble; we might as well pack it all up and sell Wolf Creek to the highest bidder . . . Vision! What vision? Love! Since when did love have it's spelling changed to H-a-t-e?
IF this personal flame war is a mirror then it shows that ALL of the various sides of this issue don't give a rip about any type of harmony: they don't care about finding a solution that works for everyone; it also shows that lies and intentional disinformation are what to expect at the Great Circle in Portland. IF this is our mirror then WHY, tell me why, anyone would want to subject themselves to half of a day to such torture? As much as I love Nomenus and as much as I love faeries, I won't be at the great circle: I won't subject myself to such complete madness.
Please don't take this posting out of context of the ENTIRE thread. It seems to me that a lot of the problems on tribe are caused by people reading only one message of a thread and jumping to conclusions: listening is just as important as speaking.
And just in case you hadn't figured it out: IF madness occurs at the Great Circle--if MUTUAL respect and openness to healing are not present--then I will cry for we ALL will loose far more than we could ever imagine. I know the earth will cry too because BOTH panGender AND faggotFaeries are her children; they are--or were before this Great Circle fiasco--her hope for bringing some peace and love to a society that has become disconnected from her, from themselves as individuals and from each other.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Membership Discussion
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 1:41 PMPersonally I don't think that some people really want to resolve the issues. I see people being drawn to conflict for the sake of conflict and just spoiling for a fight. There doesn't *seem* to be any intention of finding a solution let alone common ground to work from. -
-
Re: Membership Discussion
Tue, August 28, 2007 - 12:13 PMPersonally, I'd love a solution.
Two years of reading posts by Beast here stating that "everyone hates you, you are a liar, I'm your only ally "
while sending me private "Fuck-you-drop dead" emails is damn creepy.
-
-
